An interview with the former Deputy Commander of the KGB Nikolay Alekseyevich Sham.

On October 24th, 1991, documents were provided to former Soviet cosmonaut Pavel Popovich, the then President of the All-Union Ufological Association in Russia. These files contained copies of UFO reports sent to the infamous KGB. An accompanying letter was written by the Deputy Chairman of the Committee for State Security USSR, N.A. Sham. The files consisted of handwritten reports, typed testimonies, notes from KGB informers, crude drawings and eyewitness reports of UFOs. This cooperation between UFO researchers and the KGB was unprecedented and was a landmark in UFO research in the Soviet Union and possibly the world. Sixteen years later we have managed to catch up with the now former Deputy Commander of the KGB, and published here for the first time is an interview with the man himself.

Translated by Paul Stonehill and reproduced with the kind permission of NTV.

In June 2007 I was asked for an interview by NTV. NTV is one of the largest TV companies in Russia. Apparently they were making a new UFO documentary and wanted to discuss with me my research into the Alien Autopsy film and the book I had co-authored with Paul Stonehill (Mysterious Sky-Soviet UFO Phenomenon).

The journalist Alexey Egorov along with his cameraman and translator Elena Volkovaya duly arrived and the interview took place at my home in West Yorkshire. After the interview we discussed many things and Alexey informed me that he had interviewed the former Deputy Chairman of the KGB Nikolay Sham, and discussed with him their release of official KGB UFO files to Russian UFO researchers. This is covered in our book Mysterious Sky. Alexey went on to say that he could provide me with a transcript of his interview with Nikolay Sham. This duly arrived via email and was quickly translated by my colleague Paul Stonehill. Nothing has been omitted from the following interview, although Paul Stonehill has inserted a few things in brackets for clarification purposes only.

The full interview is reproduced here with kind permission of NTV in Moscow.

Nikolay Alekseyevich Sham was born in 1940. He was in the KGB from 1966 to 1991. From 1974, he worked in the central administration of the KGB. He was involved with the operational, technical and scientific projects. In 1986 he was with the commission that investigated the Chernobyl disaster. His rank was deputy chief of the 6th Directorate of the KGB (this is where revolutionary scientific ideas and hi-tech technologies were researched and provided protection from foreign agents; this is also where the Soviet economic espionage against other nations was generated). He left the KGB in 1992, because of health reasons. In 1999 he headed a private corporation, Greenmaster, involved in the production of various devices using technologies of the defense industry. Later he was the General Director of First Leasing Company (2003). He is mentioned in Russian media in connection with paranormal phenomena.

The former KGB Major-General, Nikolay Sham, who for a time served as a KGB deputy chairman, had turned over to cosmonaut Popovich a 127-page record of anomalous events observed on the territory of the former Soviet Union and in the Russian Federation.

INTERVIEW:

Nikolay Alekseyevich Sham. (NAS)
Alexey Egorov (AE)

AE: "Nikolay Alekseyevich, this document here from the KGB, sent to Cosmonaut Pavel Popovich; did you send it?"

NAS: "Quite right."

AE: "What year was it?"

NAS: "It was in '91; the document's registration indicates so, that is why the year was '91.

AE: "Hence, you sent a complete file of documents from the KGB?"

NAS: "Quite right. I simply (unclear-P.S.) story, why the accumulation of these documents took place specifically in the KGB. There was a special decree of the Government and the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union about the commencement of the research of these phenomena that occur in nature. According to this decree all law enforcement agencies (KGB, Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Interior Affairs, and the border guards) had to inform and report to the Center about facts they had been receiving regarding all such phenomena in nature. And all the agencies had factually accumulated the information. But the KGB was not engaged in research of such issues; it is just that some administration, some special department, if they would get some eyewitnesses of all that was happening in the atmosphere… they would take explanations and mostly hand-written materials that were sent there, describing how they saw (phenomena-P.S.), what they felt during (sightings-P.S.); describing the background of the event, and so on. All that we had eventually accumulated…accumulated, and by the same decree a few academic institutes were obliged to undertake (measures-P.S.) in order to research all these effects, various phenomena, and come to some conclusion of every incident. The main institute in the Academy of Sciences selected and appointed (to head the research-P.S.) was the Institute of Space Studies. All interesting facts were always addressed. Experts, scientists left for the place of the incident, asked questions, took soil samples, took various measurements, and so on; and reached some conclusion based on the results of the event or a fact (that was being researched-P.S.). This work was conducted for several years, and some time in mid '85-'86, in that area, it was completed, this work…and produced was a report about all the events that were registered through a number of years over the territory of the Soviet Union.

I remember that report; I held it in my hands. Of course, I do not remember all of the details there, but from what I remember now, up to 70 percent of all phenomena that were somehow registered had been explained".

AE: "They were explained from the point of view of classical science?"

NAS: "Quite right."

AE: "And, (remaining-P.S.) 30 percent?"

NAS: "Well, 30 percent…of those 30 percent, half were explained; not just one explanation, but variations of: it could be explained this way, or that way. But not in the sense that again, (it was-P.S.) some extraterrestrial civilization, its manifestation, and so on. No. And some 10-15 percent could not be explained at all…what it was, what effects, manifestations, what kind of phenomena occurred in nature, atmosphere, and so on".

AE: "Do you remember any examples of what could not be explained"?

NAS: "Mostly it…things that could not be explained, when some object materialized. Observed was a materialized object, mostly they were spots, some luminescent points, something else of different configurations and so on. As for materialized objects, that truly, if they were photographed, they had a materialized background in the shape of a saucer, some cylinder, or something similar. All such things, of course, could not have been explained: what it was, how one can comprehend all of it. That is what I remember from everything that took place back then. Moreover, all these sharp increases in public interest, they take place periodically. Time after time, the same question…you are fifth or sixth party that come with the same question. Also, from the West I was approached, why? Because these materials; this digest, travel all over the world".

AE: "All comes from this letter, because after this letter, the KGB secret files were sent to ufologists".

NAS: "No, there was not any secret document".

AE: "That is, the documents were not secret before?"

NAS: "Of course… quite right. Imagine, some citizen saw some luminescent loop, and he wrote about it. The officer on duty of some administration or a special department received this information, registered in the logbook, wrote an accompanying letter, and sent to the Center. What secrets are here? No secrets at all. On the other hand, the explanation for all such phenomena in most cases…you understand, tests were conducted, launches were performed, airplanes fly about, helicopters fly about, and the space is full of space (manmade-P.S.) objects and fragments of the space objects that periodically descend and enter the dense layers of the atmosphere. That is on one hand. On another hand, so-called "mirage" phenomena, mirages. You know, you have heard of mirages. Things related to crashes, disasters; aircraft crash when (the craft-P.S.) falls apart in flight and falls to the ground and so on. That is, a multitude of things that due to some optic distortions and so on, sometimes create such background, that really it can appear that you are in some fairy tale world, and are surrounded humanoids, that another civilization attacks the Earth, and so on. In all of my life I have never met such a fact or event, or something similar, as a result of which one could with some certainty and credibility say, that this was appearance of an extraterrestrial civilization. In all of my life, regretfully, nothing like that happened. At the same time, if we, for example, will find explanations for all of that…Here in Russia now, for some years there is research, various experiments; at their core lies, to say generally, registration of the Galactic and Universal influence on the Earth. If one can imagine this entire world…

AE: "In this file people write… "I saw a strange object, a luminescent cloud". This is not a hallucination; here he exactly…"

NAS: "And I want to address this point…how one can explain such things. Here, based on the results of the work that is being performed here in Russia. What is the heart of the problem? If we imagine this Earth where we live-it is constantly subjected to the effects of the external environment. In fact, we have…we have gravitational fields. Further…we have the Sun, and gigantic energy of the Sun comes to the Earth. Correct? Then, we have heavy planets, we have galaxy, we have so-called "relic radiation"; we have a tremendous amount of electromagnetic fields with different frequencies, and so on. And human being, it is also such a being that has everything moving inside, shifts. You know, there is some aura around a human being; a human being emits some radiation, and so forth and so forth. As a principle, one cannot exclude that in conjunction with certain factors and creation of certain fields, with manifestation of certain electromagnetic fields with certain frequencies there comes some influence on human beings. And results of these studies demonstrate, really definitely and truly demonstrate, that a human being, entering into the area of influence of such natural phenomena…he starts changing, this human being. That is, in principle, he comes to the point where he ceases to comprehend. That is, entering into the field, into this zone, that can continue for dozens of minutes… he becomes inadequate, this human being".

AE: "Can the same objects often be called hallucinations?"

NAS: "Quite so …in the mind of the human being affected by all that, it can (be a hallucination-P.S.), on one hand. On the other hand, because the Earth, too, is not of one origin, that is, there are so-called break-up lines. What is the break-up line? To speak figuratively, it is electrolyte. In the fissure, there is electrolyte. And as this is electrolyte, and imagine, there is some movement of this firmness, naturally it comes (movement-P.S.), currents are registered, and the mechanism…of the equipment in the cables registers currents up to 27 amperes!

AE: Can you imagine the power that comes as a result of these waves, radiation that comes from the very Earth?

NAS: Neutron streams. Neutron streams, they come from space, neutron streams come from the Earth. And this gigantic energy component in various shapes…and what is a human being in comparison to all this power as such? The water, too…it is the stuff that, as it is said, the original mother of all that exists."

AE: "These accumulated documents the ufologists nicknamed Blue File…Do you know the fate of the Blue File (name given for the KGB UFO documents PS), what happened with it, after ufologists were given these documents?"

NAS: "Also, there was some interest two-three years ago in the same subject, in this file. I offered them to just meet, I know some ufologists, I offered to meet them in order to…and I organized this meeting; I do not know what happened after that, but I did previously speak with these comrades on the subject of all these documents. And they said, generally, with regret, with resentment, they told me that all of the materials that had been accumulated in the institutes and so on, it did, to say figuratively, left Russia.

AE: "They say, for five hundred dollars…"

NAS: "In fact…with such (great-P.S.) resentment I was told of all these things. Indeed, some unscrupulous people used the situation, the lawlessness and uncertainty that exist in the country, and tried to make business out of it. And in fact, these materials left the country".

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