Avoiding meaningful discussion is sign of things to hide.

The Joe Rogan, RFK Jr. and Peter Hotez clash has been rather interesting to watch unfold. I think it reveals some key elements of what is occurring in our collective consciousness at the moment, and as always, presents a powerful evolutionary moment.

In this piece, I will break down what happened followed by my reflections.

Peter Hotez, is a longtime “debunker” of “vaccine misinformation.” Like anyone else, Hotez isn’t wrong about everything he says. Rather, it’s what he refuses to discuss that is of greater importance here.

During COVID, Hotez did the rounds on mainstream, supporting the need for everyone to get their shots - including children. For a list of what he got wrong during the pandemic and a look at his conflicts of interest, click here.

Hotez was also a key presenter at the World Vaccine Conference where industry professionals got together in an echo chamber to praise themselves about COVID vaccine success and plan for future development while avoiding critical questions. More on that here.

Following Robert F. Kennedy Jr’s interview on Joe Rogan, Hotez took to Twitter to call out the misinformation RFK Jr. allegedly shared on the show. Hotez didn’t address the content of what Kenndy said, just claimed he spread misinformation.

Joe Rogan snapped back, offering Hotez $100,000 to debate Kennedy on his podcast.

Hotez didn’t accept.

It appears he doesn’t want to engage with RFK Jr in debate because he doesn’t want to give platform to a “conspiracy nut.”

The Atlantic’s Tom Nichols agrees. He stated on Twitter:

The interesting part of this is a guy like Hotez would refuse to debate any doctor or scientist who doesn’t agree with him as well. He’s been avoiding it for years. Further, Hotez is protecting institutions that have clearly been captured by corporate interests and have a long history of unethical conduct resulting in billions in fines. Why shouldn’t people be skeptical of them?

But these are the types of perspectives that come out of some of the biggest mainstream journalists who find every reason to avoid an honest debate.

Hotez took to The Medhi Hasan show on MSNBC to talk about why he’s upset about the issue stating:

"Anti-vaccine disinformation...is now a lethal force in the United States. I offered to go on Joe Rogan but not to turn it into the Jerry Springer show with having RFK Jr. on."

Jerry Springer? Why does he assume this is what would happen? When have you ever seen RFK Jr. present himself in a disrespectful manner? More avoidance from Hotez?

Hotez continually claims that hundreds of thousands needlessly died in the US because of anti-vax ideas. Did some people die of COVID who may have been saved if they were vaccinated? Perhaps. Hundreds of thousands though? Not likely.

But how many died or were seriously injured by the vaccine, including children, who didn’t need to be vaccinated? How many people died or were seriously burdened due to policies like lockdowns? This is what grounded voices in the alternative space are asking.

It is also what Hotez refuses to acknowledge and where a healthy discussion needs to occur.

Now, a series of influencers have put up $2.62 million (at the time of writing this) to encourage Peter Hotez to go on the Joe Rogan show and debate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. regarding COVID vaccines and more. They are asking Hotez to specifically point out what RFK Jr. gets wrong about vaccines.

The money would go to a charity of Hotez’s choice.

To be fair it’s become a bit of an advertising campaign for the donors now, but still, it’s serving a dual purpose.

We Now Know For Sure The Mainstream Isn’t interested in Healthy Discussion

It seems to be an irresistible offer yet I doubt Hotez will accept. The worst thing that could possibly happen in the eyes of the mainstream vaccine narrative is the general public starts to realize how flimsy the science around various hot topics really is.

The mainstream media, including governments and academia, have deeply failed to have meaningful discussions around important topics. Instead, they’ve ridiculed anyone who does.

This entire debate fiasco has become a bit of an ‘our team vs. your team’ thing, but there’s one key detail worth noting. One team is willing to debate on a public stage, and the other is refusing.

This is crucial to note and is a point that shouldn’t be taken lightly.

If Hotez really does care about public health and truth, doesn’t he see that debating RFK Jr is an opportunity to squash the anti-vax position once and for all? I mean, if his position is truly airtight, this would end it for the most part, right?

If this debate were to take place, it’s likely millions upon millions would take notice, and people would see that the COVIDIAN narrative simply doesn’t have the science to back its claimed certainty.

This is likely why Hotez will avoid the discussion.

The Resulting Environment

Mainstream media no longer holds the largest microphone. This isn’t because of conspiracy theorists, it’s because people realize the mainstream media fails to get to the truth.

Now, we have a Wild West, in a good way, of influencers who can grow audiences and throw their money around to actually address the most important questions that face humanity today.

Why did it take a bunch of influencers, who seem to have benevolent intent, to transparently put up money to encourage this conversation to happen? Why couldn’t mainstream media have just been honest to begin with? Rhetorical question.

Doesn’t the public support for this debate represent how much THE PEOPLE want to see a balanced discussion on this topic? Wouldn’t a democratic country support such a discussion?

Is it really fair to say that all these people are actually just duped into believing nonsense about vaccines? Or is that a lazy excuse to not question a topic that is nowhere near as certain as mainstream voices make it sound?

On one hand, you could say that it’s chaos seeing influencers throwing their money around to make controversial conversations happen. At the same time, this is the result of institutions becoming so hijacked by their corporate overlords that they no longer have any ethics or integrity to drive their work.

This is exactly where a lack of transparency leads a society. The people become fed up and push back. Absurdity breeds evolution. Why would we expect something different?

I'm inspired by the idea that there are enough people out there with enough platform to be able to have these sorts of discussions and put hundreds of thousands of dollars behind it.

I miss the days when we could write an article and it would reach 500,000 to a million people on Collective Evolution. But censorship took those days away years ago. Now, Joe Rogan and other uncancellable voices have the opportunity to hold space for these conversations, and it should be used to our advantage. By that I mean, in the honest pursuit of truth - a spirit and endeavor mainstream minds seem to have lost sight of.

Being Wise With Words

Finally, this is a point that I find many in the alternative space avoid considering.

What are the ramifications of so many popular alternative voices being so wrong in their apocalyptic predictions?

For example, recall that many big voices said everyone vaccinated would be dead in 2 years. Then they changed it to 3 years. Then 5, and now some are saying 9 years. While anyone can see people have been injured by these vaccines, these folks are wildly over-exaggerating what’s happening, and leaving out important context.

They are playing their audiences with the prediction game. Clinging to their attention. They are constantly moving the goalpost on their predictions - just like the mainstream did with COVID restrictions.

These apocalyptic over-exaggerations have their consequences. They muddy the water for meaningful conversation.

I’ve been trying to raise awareness about the need for solid, balanced discussion for many, many years. I wrote an essay about it years ago to appeal to improved critical thinking and what I call ‘full-bodied sensemaking.’

Perhaps that approach isn’t ‘sexy’ enough for our current collective consciousness. Fear, drama, and doom & gloom still very much hijack attention.

Interestingly, mainstream media watchers can get attached to every word of COVIDIAN fear porn in the same way alternative media viewers can be hijacked by ‘awake fear porn.’ Attentions cling to drama without checking the facts.

Have a look a the tweet below to give you an indication of the sentiment that spreads around mainstream spaces - the consequence of poorly thought-out ideas and predictions.

Sure, Ben Collins isn’t entirely right here. Some people have been injured and there have been fertility issues. But notice the word mass, this didn’t happen. It’s the consistent over-exaggeration that muddies the water.

Partly as a result, Collins does not consider that Rogan is not listening to the ungrounded voices out there, but instead the thoughtful ones.

The general point remains the same, unthoughtful voices add noise to the atmosphere making it hard for other people to tune into the signal and make sense of what’s going on.

Then, in the eyes of those who follow mainstream narratives, anyone who challenges the vaccine pattern matches with the people who claim everyone will die from the product in a couple of years. Dialogue breaks down.

Solution? Be thoughtful about what you post and share. Listen to multiple sources, and be mindful of becoming hi-jacked by doom & gloom.

The onus is always on the user to make sense of what they see on social media or YouTube. Otherwise, those that wish to censor will, and they’ll have a lot of bullshit to point to as a reason for why their heavy hand is needed.

Still, the scales are tipping to a point where the old guard doesn’t have the same power they once did. The power is shifting back to the people. It’s an inspiring time, but one that calls for a deeper sense of wisdom to wield that power ethically.